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(One of the better posts by Andre...)

Posted by Andre Sanchez at 4/5/2008 10:24 PM and is filed under Andre Sanchez

Let me start by saying that this is neither an attack on objectivism, nor on objectivists in general. That is why the term "so-called" is used.

I have been posting on an objectivist discussion forum. There is a thread there discussing vigilante justice, or more specificaly, the right to engage in vigilante justice. The matter itself is primarily a question of who has a right to enforce the law, not if that right exists. Objectivists are neither pacifists nor anarchists. However, when asked to show how an individual has a right to use force (something that shouldn't even have to come up in a discussion with objectivists), I replied with the following:

"The reason man has the right to take the law into his own hands is the same reason man has the right to farm with his own hands. Reason guides his actions so that he is able to survive. Man's survival require that he act, not only to produce food and shelter, but to secure his life and his liberty, to secure justice. The law is the particular field of ethics that deals with retaliatory force. Ethics is not collective. It does not require the approval of a "higher body", of a corporate board, in order to be objective. In fact, only individuals can enforce the law, because only individuals can practice ethics. That individuals practice ethics in the field of law collectively, [What I meant to say, to be more accurate, is that individuals cooperate. You cannot act collectively.] using corporate structures (such as through the State), does not mean that only this practice is legitimate, just like the use of a corporate structure to manufacture cars does not mean that man needs to work in a corporation in order to be a productive human being. There are sometimes gains to doing so, but it is not an ethical imperative." - Andre Sanchez

This was regarded as "non-responsive", denied, and the claim was made that man does not have a right to use force, which is not simply nonsense, it is nonsense with no backing in objectivist principles. You could only claim this as an objectivist position if you take objectivist philosophical statements out of context. I was placed under "moderator preview", which means all my posts go through a moderator review before being displayed, if they are displayed at all.

The reason for the "moderator preview" was stated as being that I was violating the rules of the board, namely:

1. Promotion of ideas contrary or unrelated to objectivism.
2. Intellectual fraud, by claiming as objectivism a view that is contradicted in objectivist literature.

Interestingly enough, I happened to catch this little quote from Rand, in the "auto-quote" section there.

"All the reasons which made the initiation of physical force evil, make the retaliatory use of physical force a moral imperative." -- Ayn Rand

So man not only has a right to use force (under certain conditions), it is a moral imperative. Those are Rand's words, not mine.

I'm constantly amazed at the degraded state of intellectual debate around the web (and outside the web). Context-dropping among people claiming to be objectivists makes me particularly mad.

"Objectivism refers to any attempt to apply a concept outside its proper scope as "context-dropping." One form of context-dropping is considered a major and dangerous fallacy: the "fallacy of the stolen concept." The stolen concept fallacy consists of invoking a concept while denying the more fundamental concepts on which it depends. Much like the classical logical fallacy of "assuming what you are supposed to prove", the stolen concept fallacy is a fallacy of "assuming what you overtly deny."" - Wikipedia

LNK
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"Taking money without permission is stealing unless you work for the IRS then it's taxation. Killing people en masse is homicidal mania unless you work for the Army then it's National Defense. Spying on your neighbors is invasion of privacy unless you work for the FBI then it's National Security. Running a whorehouse makes you a pimp & poisoning people makes you a murderer unless you work for the CIA then it's counter intelligence." R. Wilson. ANCAPS Forum Headquarters, Ancapolis

Good on him!

More support from Rand:

Within the sphere of your own rights, your freedom is absolute.
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